FOUND THE BEEF (UPDATED X2)

Yep.  I've been promised a diary in which I will be proven to have "been had."  I'm not demanding that any particular diarist write it.  I'm not calling anyone in particular out.

But a promise has been made.  Where's the beef?

So, did Barack Obama leak his own prayer?  Did members of his entourage do it?  Is there forensic evidence of this horrid plot?  Perhaps a video in which we see his scurrilous aides perform this most mendacious of acts?

Of course this is just so much bullshit.  It was bullshit the first time.  It was bullshit the second time.  It was bullshit the third time.

The silence is deafening!  It doesn't take 18 hours to write a damned diary if you've already got the goods.

If I've been had, well, it shouldn't be too hard to prove that, right?  My respectometer for certain parties is running out of mercury.

You toss accusations at my nominee in a thread, my thread, where I refute these base accusations, well, you'd better have something to back up your claims.

It's a big internet.  Somebody prove me wrong.  Come on.  You know you wanna make me into an idiot.

[update] http://taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=28138

So that's it, eh? Wow.

You can doubt me. You can attack the sources for this story. But I dare anyone to say this is not amazing.

Okay. That's not amazing.

[UPDATE X2] In the comments over at Taylor Marsh Linfar accuses the Obama campaign of stealing other peoples' prayers, too. I guess those Yeshiva students were obviously part of the Obama campaign entourage. This has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever read.

bd, that is the thing that just blew me out of the water. They are actually taking prayers that people left OUT of the wall. And no one has talked about this aspect of what the Obama entourage did$#@!@ linfar | 07.31.2008 - 6:30 pm | #

Guys, can some of you rec this? I know it's a thread from this morning but it's on the Rec List and I'd like it to stay there. I want people to see this.



Display:


Tips? (2.00 / 22)

For having some respect for our nominee and for ourselves?  For not being completely and utterly full of shit?


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 09:50:07 AM EST

Unnecessary to bring this back up (2.00 / 5)

You're poking at a wound and stirring shit with this diary, nothing more. The news war has been won on the prayer issue and all you're doing is bickering. I'm not going to argue who's a liberal and who's not with you. I happen to have enough respect for the diarist you're talking about to carry me through a round of hysterics on their part (egged on by the overzealous defenders here), but whether or not she's a Democrat (she is) a troll (she's not) a PUMA (also not) or an idiot (definitely not), bickering with her and keeping this tempest in a teapot alive is not productive and is simply internet bullying for its own sake.

I loved your diary before expressing outrage at this stupid rumor. This one is just gratuitous.


M. It's like W, but flipflopped.
by warmwaterpenguin on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:14:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Unnecessary to bring this back up (2.00 / 2)

I believe that she is a Democrat and I believe that she is a liberal.  I also believe that she was being honest.  I've said as much.

In my last diary she said that she would post a diary proving that, and I am quoting, "you been had (sic)."  Others HR'ed and TR'ed that promise.  I uprated it and said that she should be given time to make her case.

I have given her time.  


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:17:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And she hasn't made the case... (2.00 / 4)

But that's no reason to whip out your e-peen and wave it around. The position is clearly indefensible at this point, and she was simply misinformed when she made the assertion. Hopefully she'll be more careful with her sourcing in the future, but in either case you don't need to try and publicly humiliate her in a forum that's already so often hostile.

She's a resource and a credit to democrats. She made a mistake. Now's the part where a day has gone by and we all let it go.


M. It's like W, but flipflopped.
by warmwaterpenguin on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:29:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Unless it persuades people (2.00 / 2)

to be more cautious when spreading dubious stories, smears, lies, and hit jobs about our nominee.


by Geekesque on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:34:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She's Pro-Obama (2.00 / 2)

So if she hasn't learned from the mistake now, she's not going to. These aren't Republican trolls or even PUMA inciters we're talking about. Linfar is more in line with say, anyone who got angry with Obama over FISA. Now to be sure, some of those people took that anger and made some detrimental, stupid moves with it instead of funneling it into more constructive action. We're still on the same side.


M. It's like W, but flipflopped.
by warmwaterpenguin on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:39:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She hasn't said anything pro-Obama (2.00 / 3)

in a long time.  

Her reference to him as "Barack Hussein Obama" indicates she's not in a good place.


by Geekesque on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:47:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She hasn't said anything pro-Obama (2.00 / 3)

Mmmm, I dunno if I'd agree with that. Some people state a person's entire name when they're displeased.

And it is his whole name so using it shouldn't be an automatic red flag.

It's a damn shame that a bunch of idiots and neerdowell's have made it so.


by JBGolden on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:55:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Even McNasty has said (none / 0)

that using his middle name like that is out-of-bounds.


by Geekesque on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 02:00:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Even McNasty has said (2.00 / 1)

Who cares what McCain has to say about it?  I think trying to judge someone's intent by that is silly. It is his name, and we need to get past the stage where every time someone mentions it we immediately assume ill intent.


Buddhist Clintonistas for Obama.
by Denny Crane on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 06:52:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Even McNasty has said (2.00 / 1)

How can you post in this diary without an apology chitown?

You're as bad as linfar, and even absurdly posted your own diary asking for others to apologise about this issue.

Your shamelessness knows no bounds it would seem.


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:24:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Even McNasty has said (2.00 / 1)

Wait, Denny Crane and ChitownDenny are one and the same?

I don't think that that is the case, is it?

Despite the user-name mix-up, I agree with the comment as intended.


by Kysen on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:29:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Even McNasty has said (2.00 / 2)

The threadz have collapsed

So many comments here all I could see was Denny before I clicked it.

Half hoping he'll come here. Apologies to Denny Crane for any confusion


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:31:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Even McNasty has said (2.00 / 2)

I know. I hate it when the magic comment #201 hits and everything collapses in on itself.


by Kysen on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:34:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Even McNasty has said (2.00 / 1)

No, we are not one and the same.


Buddhist Clintonistas for Obama.
by Denny Crane on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 08:40:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Big apologies for the confusion (2.00 / 1)

And thanks for your tolerance (which alone makes you completely distinctive)


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 09:55:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Big apologies for the confusion (2.00 / 1)

Good to see that straightened out.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 10:22:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She's Pro-Obama (2.00 / 1)

Her last three diaries have been all suspicion and no validity.  

She was proven wrong in her oddly worded pro-PUMA diary that claimed the entire mid-east trip was staged.  Within the diary there was a mountain of evidence to the contrary--which she chose to completely ignore in favor of her own fictitious conjecture based on a short clip from Andrea Mitchell.  

And then there was the "Show me the money" diary in which she basically paraphrased David Brooks' column from earlier in the week.  That's fine, they were both poor opinion pieces in which they were complaining that Obama made no real goofs on the trip so they could only go after him on a supposed lack of depth.

And now this issue.  I defended her right to claim that she had proof by uprating a comment that I very much disagreed with.  But she went too far by acting as though everyone who disagreed with her was a fool.  

You been had

At this point she was wrong and she owes folks here an apology unless she can offer proof of her claim.  If not, I think she will have lost any credibility she has gained since the end of the primary wars.  No one here will have accomplished that for her.  It will be her own doing.  And it will be based on a series of incidents, not just a single mistake.


by Tenafly Viper on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 04:38:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're in a minority (2.00 / 5)

Linfar went over the edge in a couple of diaries during the primary wars, and alienated many Clinton supporters too.

For the last two months most people have tried to forget that, and given her the benefit of the doubt over and over again.

With this Wailing Wall smear and lack of retraction, Linfar has ceased to be a credit to anything.

We all make mistakes. We can all apologise and retract.

If she hasn't got the character to do that, she remains a liability to the democratic party for the next months until the GE

Sorry. Once bitten, twice shy.

Her credibility is shot to pieces.


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:43:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Primary wars are Primary wars. (none / 0)

And unless you're a PUMA, they're over.


M. It's like W, but flipflopped.
by warmwaterpenguin on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:49:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Primary wars are Primary wars. (2.00 / 3)

They may be over, but though Linfar is no PUMA, she proved herself - how shall I put it? - 'not a friend' to the presumptive democratic nominee at that moment.

Given all the attempts at reconciliation that have gone on here, I think a sense of betrayal is completely understandable


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 02:00:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

To quote "Is this therapy?" (2.00 / 2)

If the issue is feelings were hurt then fine. Diary still doesn't serve any meaningful purpose.


M. It's like W, but flipflopped.
by warmwaterpenguin on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 02:14:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nice try but... (2.00 / 2)

My feelings aren't hurt. The potential hurt was to Obama's candidacy - as you well know. And to quote you back, we are no longer in the primary wars: it's now head to head with McCain.

An attack from behind, from your own ranks, at this stage in the campaign is potentially disastrous.

Think Russia 1917 for a vastly inflated example


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 02:19:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A mention of an erroneous charge... (2.00 / 1)

...in a diary about general dissatisfaction on a site filled with people who have already made up their minds for Obama hardly seems like an attack from behind. An ongoing repeating of the meme long after its been fully discredited on multiple sites to help it gain traction would be an attack from behind.

I won't defend the diary in question as anything more than histrionics, but it was hardly a betrayal.


M. It's like W, but flipflopped.
by warmwaterpenguin on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 02:24:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I beg to differ (2.00 / 2)

It could be giving the lie more traction, or nailing it down for good.

As for people making their minds up about Obama: I think there are bigger issues at stake. Part of the problem is the political naivete that, should Obama be caught out in some slip, gaffe or conspiracy, then Hillary could step in and save the day. It's too late in the process, and would result in Russian civil war style conflict, and a rout in the GE  


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 02:35:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

brit. (1.83 / 12)

while it would appear that i disagree with you on this issue.  i would like to point something out here.  as i know you haven't been here as much lately.

but - you uprated blue neponset's comment down below.  he has been running around calling all the c4o's trolls (yes - including sricki, atdleft, and myself) so i would take his/her words with a grain of salt. ;)


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 04:41:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

More HR abuse (2.00 / 9)

from one of our resident purity trolls. Thank you kindly, Blue Neponset. How quickly do you think you can downrate my comment?

An accurate description of the situation as always, CG.

BTW, you scared me when I thought you might leave. You mustn't ever go. The community, teh internets, and indeed even the angels would weep if you disappeared...

Er, sorry. Got carried away. What I meant to say was, I'm very concerned that you thought about leaving us. Oh, the concern!


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 07:00:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: brit. (2.00 / 1)

Just agree with his comment.

I'm not even going to start on you mojoing some fractious comment by psychodrew against me. I have no argument with you canadiangal on this issue. Let's not let the flame wars rekindle.


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:16:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: brit. (none / 0)

Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war!

Uh, on second thought...


by ReillyDiefenbach on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 01:41:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are sounding scary (none / 0)

is this snark?


by catfish2 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 06:03:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are sounding scary (none / 0)

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

OK. Let me explain this clearly to you. The GE is looming. It's republicans versus democrats. McCain has a huge war chest and is spending it in swing states. His campaign is beginning to throw the kitchen sink at Obama. And Linfsr and Denny start throwing spoons at him too.

This is no longer about a choice between democratic candidates. It's a choice between McCain and Obama.

And whoever aids and abets the enemy in times of war is a traitor


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:19:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Put on your helmet (none / 0)

you sound shell-shocked already.


by catfish2 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:26:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

lame (none / 0)


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:14:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are sounding scary (none / 0)

Either you're with us or you're with the terrorists!


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:26:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are sounding scary (none / 0)

Simpler than that.

Either you want the democratic nominee to win, or you don't. Catfish has made it quite clear that she wants Obama to lose, ergo...

Forget it. Every rational argument is a wasted breath. Go ahead. Help McCain, either for voting for him (like Catfish) or defending damaging and sacrilegious smears (like you).

Loyalty is a virtue. But loyalty to virtue is more important


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:50:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Aha! (none / 0)

I disagree with you so I must be the enemy.


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:26:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And she hasn't made the case... (2.00 / 2)

Mojo'd for e-peen.
Made me laugh.

by Kysen on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:58:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And she hasn't made the case... (2.00 / 1)

My e-peen is not funny.  My e-peen is the destroyer of e-worlds.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:59:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And she hasn't made the case... (2.00 / 3)

and she was simply misinformed when she made the assertion.

Well, that's the question, right?  Simply acknowledging that would go a long way toward proving her good faith.  Most posters don't have to prove their good faith, true, but linfar has an unfortunate reputation for spreading smears and refusing to defend them.

Her sudden silence on this issue is disconcerting.  You accidentally spread shit, you get publicly called on it, you acknowledge it.  You deliberately spread shit and get called on it . . . you disappear.


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 02:26:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Unnecessary to bring this back up (2.00 / 3)

Honestly, it is not her 'hysterics' (your word, not mine) or her initial questioning that I find offensive. It is her inability to admit error. To, if not apologize, at least retract.

Having the tenacity of a pit-bull is both a positive and negative attribute. The problem arises if, when having latched on to something...they refuse let go even if it is the wrong thing to bite. In this case, not only was it a lie that was latched on to....several 'friendly hands' were also bitten in the fray.

Long and short....there was no innocent victim in yesterday's diaries. Both 'sides' gave as much as they took...but, in the end, only one 'side' was on the side of the truth. Would be nice if that were acknowledged by the person(s) in question.


by Kysen on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:32:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She hasn't argued the point in 16 hours (2.00 / 1)

I'd say that's letting go. Reaper's the one who isn't letting go now. Sorry, but I don't require public groveling from everyone who makes a mistake on the internet.


M. It's like W, but flipflopped.
by warmwaterpenguin on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:34:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She hasn't argued the point in 16 hours (2.00 / 3)

The only participation Linfar had in my well-sourced diary was to basically mock me with a post-and-run.  I considered her "you been had" remark to be a taunt and a promise of further absurdity.

I don't want her to grovel, nor Chitowndenny.  An apology from Linfar, even a brief "I screwed up" would suffice.

Or, of course, she can present her evidence.  As I asked in the title, "Where's the beef?"


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:37:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

All of which would amount to nothing. (2.00 / 2)

Clearly I'm not going to convince you, but in this hostile environment requiring her to apologize may as well be asking her to kiss the ring. And it solves nothing, fixes nothing, changes nothing, except it seals up your internet victory nicely.

I've made my case that this diary is counterproductive. If you want to leave it up here clogging the rec-list with old news that's your call.


M. It's like W, but flipflopped.
by warmwaterpenguin on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:43:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All of which would amount to nothing. (2.00 / 6)

Respectfully, you've laid out your argument well.  The fact that I am not persuaded is no dig against you.  I am sympathetic to your point.

However conciliatory I try to be (and that is my first instinct), I will not sit idly by whilst my erstwhile colleagues smear our nominee, show no willingness to comport their views with reality, show no contrition, and vow to repeat the whole thing.

Between Linfar and Chitowndenny they had, what, three or four diaries in which to push the smear?  Intended or not.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:46:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You've done a great job... (2.00 / 4)

...cleaning up this nasty smear. All kudos for you for that.  This diary is just mopping up the last of the mess.

The least we could expect is some help from the people who made the mess in the first place.


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:52:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Counterproductive? (2.00 / 3)

Is this a therapy session or a political blog?

Reaper0bot's diary is important because it counters a very damaging and mendacious smear about the democratic nominee from a major progressive blog.

Many many people read this blog who don't comment. Journalists and commentators refer to it, and sample the state of progressive support from the diaries and comments here.

In light of that, Linfar's diary and subsequent comments were highly counterproductive and in essence, a stab in the back for many fellow democrats.

Nobody needs a grovelling apology from Linfar: what we want is for the allegation to be removed. Simple as that.

She's smeared dirt on someone. Her moral duty is at least to wipe some of it off. And this diarist has done great job cleaning up the smear, and setting the record straight,


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:50:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

His diary yesterday was. (2.00 / 1)

This one barely addresses the issue at all. This diary isn't about Obama; it's a bout Linfar.


M. It's like W, but flipflopped.
by warmwaterpenguin on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:51:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No... (2.00 / 5)

This diary is about Linfar's smear of Obama, and the threat that there was 'more evidence to come'.

No one's attacking Linfar existentially. We're attacking her smear on the nominee, and waiting for the promised evidence.

You're parsing this to the point of absurdity.

At the moment it's still hanging out there: they claim to have proof he leaked his own prayer. Linfar and Chittown have failed to provide any.

The silence is important. The lack of evidence crucial


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:56:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All of which would amount to nothing. (2.00 / 6)

Your argument would have far more weight if the comments didn't originate in a diary entitled "You know who you are, and you owe an apology". Linfar/Denny both started the situation by quoting a false, retracted and discredited rumor. They kept digging by quoting more sources, hoping people wouldn't notice that their sources all boiled down to the same retracted story.

All the while, they kept telling us we needed to apologize to them for questioning their story. This diary, while perhaps not particularly motivational for the duo who pushed the false, retracted and discredited rumor, does serve to reinforce an important point: the "Obama leaked his own prayer" was a false, retracted and discredited rumor. If they have any evidence to counter that claim, we welcome it. But no one should make false, retracted and discredited claims about presidential candidates, especially about a Democratic one on a site with a declared pro-Democratic agenda, without being held accountable.

(Just to hammer home the "false, retracted and discredited" portion, the student himself spoke about the incident... Three days ago)


by TCQuad on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 02:18:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All of which would amount to nothing. (2.00 / 3)

And I am the person I believe who is owed an apology from everyone who trashed my diary with outrage over my saying on Sunday I believe information  about the prayer  was deliberately leaked/arranged/whatever word you want to use. And I damn well want the apology from all those who just could not believe how outrageous my assertion was, who accused me of being disloyal, a freeper and on and on and on!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shades of hypocrisy, no?


by Kysen on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 02:23:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She hasn't argued the point in 16 hours (2.00 / 2)

I don't see an apology or retraction as groveling.

I see it as a mature way of acknowledging that one was in the wrong (purposefully or otherwise), and, while I can only speak for myself, a HUGE step towards mending the rift torn open by this topic.


by Kysen on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:51:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i wholeheaterdly agree. (2.00 / 1)

and i stayed out of the original flame wars on this issue - its enough already.

ENOUGH.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 04:24:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Unnecessary to bring this back up (none / 0)

What you don't seem to understand is (and it is not your fault BTW) is that that is all the bot has. He/she stirs up crap, tosses bombs (rhetorical ones) at people and thinks he/she is the only person in the world and he/she gets to define everyone else, and they had better live by those "definitions" or ELSE! Sad case of someone who cannot seem to grasp that other people are as real as they are.


by zerosumgame on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 09:39:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Unnecessary to bring this back up (none / 0)

Um.  Linfar made shit up and I called her on it.  Why is your pop psychology worth a damn, pal?

I don't question the reality of another poster.  I question the validity of Linfar's reality, however.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 09:41:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 2)

Not trying to be an ass, but I don;t understand the point of this diary, other than to continue a pointless flame war.


Buddhist Clintonistas for Obama.
by Denny Crane on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 02:32:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (none / 0)

well, that IS his/her only point in posting here, to inflame and incite and spread his/her self-admitted bigotry (claims to have met one PUMA and did not like him so they all must be eeeeeeeeee-vil, in school when you try to make a graph with one data point that is called FAIL) over every blog he/she can find.


by zerosumgame on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 09:41:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? (2.00 / 1)

well, that IS his/her only point in posting here, to inflame and incite

Hmmm...what's that saying about a Pot and a Kettle?


by Kysen on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 09:50:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Meanwhile, Paris Hilton is losing the election (1.00 / 1)

getting so worked up about this is not helping him.


by catfish2 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 09:51:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Meanwhile, Paris Hilton is losing the election (2.00 / 1)

Meanwhile...back at the Ranch...

Paris Hilton IS losing the election.
For McCain.


by Kysen on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 09:54:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow, you're not even pretending (1.37 / 8)

to be anything but a McCain fluffer now.


by Geekesque on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:19:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you know what that word means? (2.00 / 3)

That's hitting below the belt.

GROW UP!


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:36:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you know what that word means? (1.66 / 3)

That's hitting below the belt.

Not for nothin'....but, I think that is exactly what that is.

;)


by Kysen on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:41:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's a first for me. (1.66 / 3)

I've never seen anyone here called a cock-sucking whore.


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:46:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's a first for me. (1.33 / 3)

Dude, reel it in!

'Fluffer'...'Below the belt'...get it?
Your comment was unintentionally funny.

Good lord, no one is calling anyone a, as you so colorfully put it, cock-sucking whore.


by Kysen on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:52:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's a first for me. (2.00 / 2)

A fluffer is someone who orally arouses a male porn star to prepare him for a show.

I don't think that was a joke.  He hasn't retracted his comment.


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:56:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Okay, she's just a shameless (1.33 / 3)

McCain lover and pathologically obsessed Obama hater.

Nice friend you have.  Does she send you madrassa emails?


by Geekesque on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:59:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Okay, she's just a shameless (2.00 / 2)

You're calling her shameless?  After what you said?


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:09:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am a Democrat on a Democratic (1.50 / 2)

website.  

She is a Zell Miller/Joe Lieberman type whose only purpose here is to spread hatred for Barack Obama.

You evidently have no shame, since you're willing to hang out with Swiftboaters like LInfAR


by Geekesque on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:10:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're a shameless, immature sexist. n/t (2.00 / 2)


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:15:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How uncivil of you. (1.50 / 2)

Maybe you should downrate yourself for calling someone names.

Oh wait, you only object to that kind of behavior if it's a Republican on the receiving end.


by Geekesque on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:17:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm uncivil. (none / 0)

This is becoming comic.


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:22:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You accused me of being sexist. (1.75 / 4)

I find that to be quite an insult.

To be blunt, I didn't know what gender your troll friend is.  I really don't care.  Catfish is an it to me, an annoying electronic entity.

The fluffing was a metaphor, and perhaps unnecessarily harsh.

But, when you sit there and defend Swifboaters, I'm not going to be held accountable by you.


by Geekesque on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:28:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You accused me of being sexist. (none / 0)

An hour and a half later it's a metaphor.  Do you care to explain that metaphor?


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:41:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you really think I was (2.00 / 1)

accusing her of tending to McCain's, excuse me I have to barf.

The sense I'm used to is that it means to promote or boost someone else up with litle regard for any kind of decency or shame.


by Geekesque on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:57:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I take you at your word. (none / 0)

I wish you had clarified that 1 hour and 45 minutes ago.

Sexual metaphors are better used among friends, not strangers.


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 12:00:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

And best (2.00 / 2)

not on the Internet.

Cheers.


by Geekesque on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 12:06:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I take you at your word. (none / 0)

I, for one, gramatically challenged though I can be...read it as a metaphor the first time.

One would REALLY have to be expecting the worst in a commenter to read it as being literal.

Glad to see ya'll have the hatchet where it belongs (underground).

Peace.


by Kysen on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 12:25:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Okay--how about she's a (1.66 / 3)

McCain-loving, Obama-hating, pathological troll?

Oh wait, I forgot, she's your friend, so it's perfectly cool when she calls a brilliant, accomplished Democrat "Paris Hilton."

$50 says that your friend Catfish is a lot closer in IQ and personal merit to Paris Hilton than she is to Barack Obama.


by Geekesque on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:55:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You need to apologize. n/t (2.00 / 2)


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:04:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll apologize when (none / 0)

you call Linfar out for her repulsive swiftboating attempt and promotion of rightwing and racist sources.

Till then, not happening.


by Geekesque on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:08:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Seriously. (2.00 / 1)

Is this snark?


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:19:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If you find Swiftboating acceptable, (none / 0)

then I really can't bring myself to care about your CONCERN over civility and propriety.

If you stand by linfar, you stand by swiftboating.


by Geekesque on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:21:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks drew. He's just angry. (2.00 / 1)

And I did call his candidate Paris Hilton. That was probably a little hurtful.


by catfish2 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:10:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I should be angry at myself (2.00 / 2)

for letting an RNC troll bait me.

I won't make the mistake of feeding you again.  


by Geekesque on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:12:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You meanie! n/t (2.00 / 2)


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:28:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You need to apologize. n/t (1.50 / 2)

I dunno, drew...I just can't see being so outraged over what was a metaphorical zing thrown at a troll (be she your friend or not).

I highly doubt that intended the literal 'cock-sucking whore' (again, your words, not mine) with his use of the word.

I read it as a metaphor, and as such, agreed with it.

Had it been meant to be literal, I would not agree with it.

Words, and the interpretations of them, are funny like that.


by Kysen on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:12:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Geekesque apologized (none / 0)

or he vowed to contain himself. Take after him and get some dignity.


by catfish2 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:31:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Geekesque apologized (none / 0)

I cannot begin to tell you how hard I laughed at this comment.

You are one of the last people I would think to look towards for advice on how to act in a dignified manner. In fact, here on MYDD, you may well be THE last person.


by Kysen on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 12:21:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You need to apologize. n/t (none / 0)

I have never heard that word used in any other context.  But I've lived abroad for a long time and I know I've lost some of the slang.  So I Googled the word just to make sure.

And he doesn't seem to be backing off.

There are just some words that are unacceptable.  There has to be a line somewhere.  He crossed it, and he doesn't think there's anything wrong with it.


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:35:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Quite literally below the belt. (1.66 / 3)

Catfish2 is nothing but a McCain-loving troll.  I don't have to respect its humanity when it shows none.


by Geekesque on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:49:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Quite literally below the belt. (2.00 / 1)

You wanna be a smart ass, that's fine.  That's the way of it tonight.

But you called her a WHORE, a COCK-SUCKING WHORE!


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:59:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fine, she's not a whore. (1.50 / 2)

Just a McCain-loving lowlife troll.


by Geekesque on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:00:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Over the line (2.00 / 1)

First, go wash your mouth out with soap, then go a read your own diary, Obama condemns misogynism towards Hillary, and reflect on calling Catfish a cock sucking whore.


by grlpatriot on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:38:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow, you're not even pretending (2.00 / 1)

You are disgusting.


by Tolstoy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 12:16:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where's the beef? (2.00 / 9)

The proof is in the same locked drawer as the whitey tape.


by rfahey22 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:26:02 AM EST

Re: Where's the beef? (2.00 / 4)

That's what I heard too. Does that mean it must be true since we've both heard about it?


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:52:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where's the beef? (2.00 / 5)

Larry Johnson has all Obama damaging videos hidden in a body cavity for safekeeping (I'll not say which).  A little trick he learned in the CIA.

When the time is right, I've no doubt he'll produce them from the source of all his other information: his ass.  ;)

Seriously though, does anyone besides me imagine Flowbee's CIA days as akin to those of the red stapler guy in the movie Office Space?


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:52:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where's the beef? (2.00 / 2)

I thought maybe he was more like the guy that ended up wetting his pants in True Lies. The guy that was pretending to be a secret agent so he could score with Ahhhnuld's wife - Jamie Lee Curtis.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 12:30:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where's the beef? (none / 0)

Good one.  Hadn't thought of that.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 12:51:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where's the beef? (2.00 / 2)

Hey, didn't you hear reaper? Barbara WaWa said it was true on the View. Of course, she was citing the same discredited statement by an unnamed source at Ma'ariv, but that shouldn't matter. Someone on television repeated that rumor so it must be true. Besides, there's that video of his entourage. Haven't you seen that? Of course, that didn't show anything remotely like proof, but it's a video. That's important.

You just want to lower the level of discourse on here. How dare you demand that people prove their scurrilous accusations? That takes all of the fun out of it.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:57:55 AM EST

Re: Where's the beef? (2.00 / 4)

Yeah.

I gave Linfar some uprates and stated that we should give her time to post her diary.  I was far more restrained than most were.  That restraint was not infinite.

That restraint is just about gone.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:07:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Linfar fell off the wagon a while ago. (2.00 / 2)

Just another hyper-emotional ranter at this point.


by Geekesque on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:36:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Linfar fell off the wagon a while ago. (2.00 / 3)

But strangely not a PUMA.  I'm not sure what's going on there.  I guess she just underscores the importance of not relying too much on labels.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:42:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You can support a candidate you don't trust. (2.00 / 3)

That's where Linfar is. There are more Clintonistas like that then there are PUMAs (and of course the majority have come even further and are excited about the candidate, if less than they would have been.)

She views him through the same critical lens that most people view the opposition through, but her efforts have been towards his nomination and her vote is his too. She's a good democrat, and on reflection, I think she (and most people) don't get what a serious and unheard of charge it was to claim the prayer was leaked.

I'm not defending the viewpoint which I found offensive, skewed, dubiously sourced, and easily debunked. I will defend the diarist though. Linfar represents a very real suspicion that some have. She wants to like the man better, and she's behind him even if she never gets there. Isn't that the 'falling in line' everyone likes to talk about? Isn't it admirable to be able to suck down your misgivings and apply logic to make the best voting choice? In a way, I think the voter who doesn't get butterflies for the man and supports him anyway deserves more credit than the ardent defenders.

Give Linfar (and Chitown) a break.

As a side note to those two: the larger a group gets, the more indicative of the general state of humanity it becomes. A small myDD could have a concentration of intelligent posters, or a concentration of like-minded pro-Clinton posters, or a concentration of pro-Obama apologists, and indeed it has had those things at various times. As it gets larger though, the majority of posters become more like the majority of people: loud and unreasoned. Don't let the histrionics of the mob make you feel unwelcome or demonized, but likewise make sure your assertions are well-supported before you stir them up.


M. It's like W, but flipflopped.
by warmwaterpenguin on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:24:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You can support a candidate you don't trust. (2.00 / 5)

I think she (and most people) don't get what a serious and unheard of charge it was to claim the prayer was leaked.

Ding Ding Ding...we have a winnah!

I think that a large part of the visceral reaction many (including myself) had over this particular smear was not so much the smearing of Obama...but, the smearing of the Wailing Wall.

While here on the blogs/in America are focusing on how such a nasty smear could be lobbed at Obama....Israel, and most Jews, are focused on how such a horrible, insulting thing could have happened at the Wailing Wall. No matter whose prayer it was.

The flippant attitude of 'he should have expected it' only added to the insult. No, he should NOT have expected it to happen. No one should, because it is The Wailing Wall.

So, yes, I agree that a large part of the problem was that one side was not able (willing?) to understand what, exactly, was really pissing off many from the other side.

Alrighty.
New day and all that....


by Kysen on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:47:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You can support a candidate you don't trust. (2.00 / 1)

As an agnostic with a deep respect for the Jewish faith (my boyfriend is Jewish, and I often go to services with him), I was really hurt by this whole thing. Especially after I saw the actual video of the students pulling a number of prayers out of the wailing wall that belonged to other people and their god and just throwing them on the ground as if they were nothing.  

I'm offended that the matter of one man's faith and his respect for other religions could be compartmentalized the same way as a common, trivial political issue.   To believe that Obama had his campaign staff steal the paper from the wailing wall and give it to the press goes into a realm beyond normal cynicism.  Because if there were any truth to it (which of course there isn't) imo that should be a candidacy breaking moment.


by Tenafly Viper on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 05:09:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The problem is that her claims (none / 0)

were wildly inaccurate, false, libelous, and dishonest.

There is simply no logical defense for that crap she was alleging.

It didn't require trust of Obama to disprove her libel.  Only a functioning cerebral cortex.

If she were a real journalist, she'd be dead meat in a defamation trial.

She is a Swiftboater with malice aforethought.


by Geekesque on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:27:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where's the beef? (2.00 / 5)

Wow, you go away for a day, and you miss the firestorm!

Been staining my deck and yesterday went to the Steely Dan Show (amazing, as usual) at the San Michelle Winery.

What was interesting was, I was able to go back in time, through the diaries, and recreate the timeline, then watch the war develop.

What was also interesting was, since I didn't get involved (and I surely would have) was to watch how predictable everyone played their roles.

The true Obama haters were simply cut and dried:They would post the PROOF and even when it was debunked, the would simply ignore the rebutal.

The soft Obama supporters were mostly given aid and comfort to the other Clintonites being attacked, I think some of them DID feel uncomfortable with the right wing sources, but their allegance to their comrades was mostly what showed.

There WAS this little interlude discussing intelligent design, which I found really cool, would love to actually see a full blown thread.

But, what came through, as I gave it a moment of reflecting was...

Those who were on the said of the "maybe he did it" seem to lack ANY OUTRAGE as pointed out to them that this is a sacrilege almost without precident in the Jewish faith?

I loved your comment "what about the popes prayer? Bob  Dylan?"

What I was struck with is, what if the shoe was on the other foot?

What if Hillary Clinton's prayer had been taken?

As I read some of the posters softly defending their comrades, and just kind of stating "Yeah. Obama is a smart pol, he had to know it might be stolen..."

I am struck by the fact that I believe, if it was Hillary's note, their would be 50 diaries about the outrage, they would be attacking virulently the sources they are quoting..."

Just goes to show you, their support is soft, WILL ALWAYS be soft, and we should expect nothing else.

It will take YEARS perhaps for their wounds to heal from Senator Clinton's loss, even if they pull the lever for Obama.

Rec'd by the way, Reaper, and thank you for your outrage, I am a Catholic, but, as you said, if someone had bugged the confessional, I would be screaming bloody murder, even though I am a skeptic of religion, voilating someones faith is an absolute cringe point for me.


"Well the danger on the rocks is surely past... Still I remain tied to the mast"...Don Fagen, Poet and Piano Player
by WashStateBlue on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:42:48 AM EST

Re: Where's the beef? (2.00 / 3)

So you saw my "rage" diary?  I thought it was a healthy burning rage.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:44:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where's the beef? (2.00 / 6)

The soft Obama supporters were mostly given aid and comfort to the other Clintonites being attacked, I think some of them DID feel uncomfortable with the right wing sources, but their allegance to their comrades was mostly what showed.

Hit the nail on the head. I fully understand sticking up for ones comrades when they are being attacked unfairly. But I have become quite fond of Chitown and Linfar and am truly dissapointed in them. This isn't just any smear we are talking about. If the roles were reversed and Obama supporters were trashing Hillary with right wing sources (I'm talking about right now, not the primary) many of the soft supporters would be more than outraged. A line exists and one has to know when to back off and stay out of it. I made the choice not to engage or participate in the flame war but I was surprised when Linfar and Denny were defended by others.

They were launching disgustin accusations at Senator Obama. It's not freedom of speech. If you think you have the facts to back up your claim then go for it. But if you are proven wrong over and over again with more credible sources you've got to know when to fold them.

This isn't about C4O or former Hillary supporters. This is about 2 diarists who took it upon themselves to spread a malicious rumor with NO EVIDENCE.

I have no idea what is going on with Lin and Chitown but I hope they realize they fucked up. I for one have not given up on them (really dig Linfar's diaries and Denny's insight) and hope to see them posting around here again.


Obama/Clark (still dreaming)
by spacemanspiff on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:57:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where's the beef? (2.00 / 5)

I have no idea what is going on with Lin and Chitown but I hope they realize they fucked up. I for one have not given up on them (really dig Linfar's diaries and Denny's insight) and hope to see them posting around here again.

I tend to agree with this statement, however, I must admit that I will be a bit gun-shy about giving them benefit of the doubt in the future. I tried to toe the line...but, the complete and utter lack of logic being displayed by them drove me up the walls. It really was like arguing with a Republican (which, in turn, is often like arguing with a toddler whose ability to use logic has not yet formed).

Even as such, I found myself in the odd position of being chastised by BOTH 'sides'